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If there is one thing most people are certain of about the Bible, it is that it describes how after people die they will be rewarded with heaven or tormented in hell. But does it? As it turns out … well, you'll be surprised by what the Bible actually says. And once your surprise fades, you'll probably want to know: where do the Christian ideas of the afterlife come from?
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I grew up in a fundamentalist family. One of the hardest things to let go in my deconversion was a fear that I would spend eternity screaming in Hell because I stole a package of orange TicTacs when I was five years old. Thank you Dr. Ehrman for helping me finally break free of Christianity’s chains.
I recommend chtistopher hitchens and richard dawkins. it takes about 5 years and then you are free of religion
@@bryancharlebois It took me about half a year but depends on how much time you spend on research. I spent a lot of time, so it didn’t take too long. I deconverted from Islam, then came across Dr Ehrman’s scholarship which made me leave theism (realizing Christianity and Judaism are just as wrong and also the problem of theodicy) and I then turned from deist/agnostic into an atheist after studying all the God arguments and their refutations through a plethora of debates.
Welcome to Islam
@@Nexus-jg7ev i went through an awakening. I didn’t give up on God, Jesus etc but i did on Christianity.
@@Nexus-jg7ev interesting reply. all these gods (egyptians, greeks, romans, jewish etc never existed and neither does christianity
I’ve never been religious, but in my youth I read a lot of fantasy fiction and the concepts of a generic “land of the dead” and reincarnation always made more sense than heavens and hells.
And neither of the above makes more sense than neither of the above
I adore the sanity of this channel where i can learn about the theological elements that have so informed our culture…without someone trying to pull me into “a relationship with the Lord”.
And also not the other annoying extreme where I’m being reminded at every turn about how these stories don’t work logically and religion is bad. I just want to focus on the scholarship.
Amen
@@HessianHunter IS NOT RELIGION LIKE THE OLD BLUES TUNE “IS YOU IS OR IS YOU AIN’T MY BABY”? STEVE I OWN YOU IF I CANNOT HAVE YOU NOBODY CAN’T HAVE YOU I MEAN NO BODY
According to Established Titles, you too can become a Lord.
And that “relationship with the Lord” is less about personal spiritual development and more being stuck in the world’s most bitter bookclub and bullied into attending all their sessions.
What I notice about Matthew 25 is that no one is condemned for their actions, but for their inaction.
2 Thessalonians 1:8
Very informative podcasts! Megan, I love your hair. My daughter usually had purple, pink, blue or green hair. I lost her when she was 39. 💔Thank you for being unique – I could adopt you in a heartbeat! 💜
I like that color too! It’s the same color as my first car, a 1964 VW imported from the UK!🤣
Don’t follow this. If your daughter also died her hair unnatural colors, how does that make Megan “unique”? The trouble with blue or green or purple or pink hair dye is that it never resembles anything like what hair would really look like if it were possible for human hair to be any of those colors. The effect is never anywhere near as arresting or striking as it’s presumably intended, just vaguely tawdry.
@@jeffryphillipsburns That sounds very narrow minded. People with brown hair frequently bleach it blond. That isn’t natural either! Are you going to criticize that? What’s the difference? Who cares what color people dye their hair or how many tattoos they have or if they have plastic surgery? I have pig valves in my heart, does that make me unnatural? Should I have just died instead? Everyone should feel free to do whatever makes them happy as long as it doesn’t hurt anyone else. All that matters is how we treat others. I prefer to be accepting. Sheesh. I love Megan’s free spirit and self-expression! Don’t criticize her to me!!
@@jeffryphillipsburns This is what you focus on when you reply to a person sharing something about their dead daughter? You sound like a peach.
@@Beegee1952 Absolutely agree with you and your daughter sounds like she wasn’t afraid of expressing her personality, which in my book makes her cool!
My Sunday group may get tired of my telling them what Bart Ehrman says on a subject (they are much to kind to say so), but they might as well get used to it because I am not going to stop.
Stay at it until they throw you out! Truth dies in an echo chamber.
@@sirrevzalot Thanks, but, as I said, they would not do that.
I mean, as a nonbeliever and anti-clerical myself, I’m all for telling people that their religious beliefs are not as well-founded as they think, but you might want to avoid annoying them too much, because otherwise they’re just going to block out not only what you say but also any conversation that involves Bart Ehrman’s work or any critical Biblical scholarship.
@@samrevlej9331 Thanks, good point.
I’ve read Bart’s book “Heaven and Hell.” Even if you aren’t afraid of hell and don’t believe in heaven or hell, as I don’t, it’s still a wonderful, interesting, understandable and necessary read. Who wouldn’t want to know about the origination of ideas that have had such an affect on Western civilization and the culture that informs us? His book is thorough and convincing. It is based on translation of the original languages of the Bible. It’s never boring and supremely rational and fact-based. It is not an attempt to undermine faith; it means to underscore what lies behind faith. A person should know what they are saying/accepting when they affirm a particular faith.
EFFECT not AFFECT. For pity’s sake
@@zapkvr Grammer Nazis are not nice!
I appreciate the good review of Bart’s book. Hope I get a chance to read it.
@@zapkvrfor *pete’s sake
I think there should be a hell for people like the Nazis, Hitler Trump and more hateful people, it would not be fair for those 6 million Jews that died under him. There must be accountability.
Learn Greek. Go for it! I took it in college when I was still young and adventurous. Had to translate Euripides before the end of my first year. Forty five years later I am still using it and still learning new things about it.
5th generation atheist
I never understood how xtians could idolize heaven yet fear death.
Your work is so important and appreciated.
Thank you both 💓
Because they, or at least a particular brand of “xtian” actually idolizes hell.
It’s death that makes us mortal and the fear of death that makes us human. Religion or philosophy might temporarily sooth our fear of death or distract us from it, but it’s unrealistic to suppose that either could possibly fully supplant so basic and definitive a human characteristic. We are genetically programmed to fear death, and we can’t argue our way out of it. (Animals fear death too when confronted with the palpable possibility, of course, but they, presumably, are less capable of abstract thought—depending on the animal—and thus less constantly aware of their own mortality.)
Good ? Me 2
Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die.
@@joseluisalcantarasanchez269 : Except for old people, they want to die to be out of their pain. I look forward to death as it will be a release from my physical pain. I also do not want to live forever, I just want to R.I.P. Living forever sounds like hell.
Dr. Ehrman’s background resonates with me as a deconstructing theist. He has helped me to exorcise the fears of my past conditioning. I now want to know rather than blind believing.
Those who want to know rather than believe, should abandon Allah, Poseidon, Thor, God, The Flying Spaghetti Monster, Jesus, Ganesha the elephant god and so on, and instead care about what can be observed, measured and predicted, i.e. science.
Being a child and thinking you’re going to hell if you don’t believe in Jesus is traumatic. I don’t know how many times I was “born again” out of a obsessive compulsive fear that I might not really be saved.
The three heavens are winter, spring, and summer. Heaven is within.
@@harveywabbit9541 I like that! But what about Fall? That is my season is heaven for me.
@@MicahBuzanMUSIC
Heaven is all around, but man fails to see.
oof I can relate to the multiple born again experiences lol
@@MicahBuzanMUSIC yessssssss
Bart’s reaction at 2:07 is just so amazing ! Those little chit chat moments at the start of the videos as real treasures.
I loved that.
Really well I di not know what book he is reading to refute for it show you OT
Numbers 16:30-34
King James Version
30 But if the Lord make a new thing, and the earth open her mouth, and swallow them up, with all that appertain unto them, and they go down quick into the pit; then ye shall understand that these men have provoked the Lord.
31 And it came to pass, as he had made an end of speaking all these words, that the ground clave asunder that was under them:
32 And the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed them up, and their houses, and all the men that appertained unto Korah, and all their goods.
33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
34 And all Israel that were round about them fled at the cry of them: for they said, Lest the earth swallow us up also.
And Isaiah said
Isaiah 14:14-15
King James Version
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
The witch of endor and Saul note
1 Samuel 28:13-14
King James Version
13 And the king said unto her, Be not afraid: for what sawest thou? And the woman said unto Saul, I saw gods ascending out of the earth.
14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.
Mr Bart errored when he compare the breathe to the soul and spirit for
Numbers 16:22
King James Version
22 And they fell upon their faces, and said, O God, the God of the spirits of all flesh, shall one man sin, and wilt thou be wroth with all the congregation?
Isaiah 42:5
King James Version
5 Thus saith God the Lord, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein:
The Coming of the Kingdom
20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: 21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
And NT and using OT christ said what
Matthew 12:40
King James Version
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
Numbers 16:33
King James Version
33 They, and all that appertained to them, went down alive into the pit, and the earth closed upon them: and they perished from among the congregation.
Isaiah 14:14-15
King James Version
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High.
15 Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.
Isaiah 14:9
King James Version
9 Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations.
Lastly
Matthew 12:40
King James Version
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
1 Peter 3:18-20
King James Version
18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:
19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison;
20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.
Bart, as a rabbi, I believe the near death experience is a valid possibility. However, I often tell my congregants that the question whether there is an afterlife is irrelevant. If there is an afterlife, we will find out soon enough. And if there is no afterlife, none of us will ever know the difference. Becoming one with the cosmic order is no small consolation prize.
NDE STUDIES – (Los Angeles Times excerpts)………………….
Researchers estimate that around 17 percent of people have an NDE. That means about 80% don’t. Scratch beneath those alleged flat EKG lines, and the stories are a veritable twilight zone of inconsistencies. Some near-death voyagers claim to have met God – BUT A FEW SAW ELVIS PRESLEY OR GROUCHO MARX, researchers say. Others get to heaven not through the famous “tunnel”, but ABOARD GHOSTLY TAXICABS, FERRIES THAT CROSS THE RIVER STYX, OR SPANGLED COWS.
Even children – often touted as the best source of unbiased information – sometimes return from “death” claiming they were GREETED IN THE OTHER WORLD BY STILL LIVING TEACHERS, AND NINTENDO CHARACTERS, instead of deceased relatives.
HINDUS WHO BELIEVE IN YAMRAJ, the Hindu god of the dead, EXPERIENCED MEETING HIM. A Hindu girl “died” and WENT TO HEAVEN ON A COW. Would that mean people will be riding cows to heaven? Jews who don’t believe in Jesus or “hell”, experienced God as described in the Old Testament; while Messianic Jews experienced God as Jesus.
In one study carried out, the experiences of 16 Asian Indians were compared with those of Americans, and it was found that THE INDIANS HAD ENCOUNTERED YAMRAJ, the Hindu king of the dead, WHILE THE AMERICANS HAD NOT.
Dr. Richard Eby had an NDE and allegedly Jesus told him he had to go back, and that he (Jesus) would return (2nd coming) before Richard Eby died permanently. BUT, DR. RICHARD EBY HAS NOW DIED, AND JESUS HAS NOT RETURNED.
A few hospitals have placed signs in their cardiac units – with nonsensical messages visible only from above – but so far NOBODY HAS RETURNED FROM DEATH CLAIMING TO HAVE FLOATED UP AND SEEN ONE.
You would expect, that if any particular religious account of the afterlife were true, NDEs would be pretty much the same. BUT THESE ACCOUNTS ARE SO VARIED AND ARE ALL BASED ON CULTURAL EXPOSURE. IN INDIA PEOPLE SEE HINDU GODS, IN SAUDI ARABIA IT’S MOHAMMED, ALLAH, AND A BUNCH OF VIRGINS. The kid from the book/movie Heaven Is For Real saw a Jesus with sea green-blue eyes on A RAINBOW COLORED HORSE, God with BLUE EYES, YELLOW HAIR AND HUGE WINGS, and ONE LITTLE GIRL WENT TO HEAVEN AND WAS GREETED BY A PORTLY MAN WITH A WHITE BEARD AND A RED CAP A.K.A. SANTA CLAUSE.
The Mapuche people of South America and residents of Hawaii are more likely to SEE LANDSCAPES AND VOLCANOES, whereas NDEs in Thailand and India rarely involve landmarks, tunnels or light; for Tibetans, light features more heavily, as do illusions of reincarnation. Europeans and North Americans often visualize beautiful gardens; intriguingly, the Kalai of Melanesia are more inclined to SEE AN INDUSTRIALIZED WORLD OF FACTORIES. An NDEr’s subjective experiences can be attributed to many factors: THE NDEr’s PSYCHOLOGY, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, BACKGROUND, ETC. — NOT JUST CULTURE.
The terrain of heaven also varies wildly – from gardens, forests, or CATTLE FILLED PASTURES in some accounts, to clouds, COMPUTER ROOMS, or castles in others. A TEXAN SAW BARBED WIRE FENCES IN THE AFTERLIFE; Micronesians describe large, noisy CITIES WITH CARS AND SKYSCRAPERS.
Drug addicts, atheists, suicides, hedonists, felons (murder), abusers, and gay people have claimed to encounter heaven. Strangely, people have claimed to enter hell FOR THE SAME REASONS. Contradictions abound.
This is a wonder. Is the hereafter actually mining and refining in factories, the materials needed to build castles, cars, barbed wire fences, computers, and skyscrapers? Has the hereafter developed the tools and machinery needed to manufacture? Where is the afterlife getting the raw materials and tools needed to manufacture and construct those ever-increasing cubes, cages, and rooms in hell that some claim? And is it demons that actually do the assembling/building/placement? Or who? And, exactly which of the variety of hells do you actually go to? The Christian one? Hindu? Buddhist? Spiritualist? Muslim? Strangely, the answer seems to be whichever one the experiencer has been exposed to. Thai Buddhist afterlife voyagers claim to encounter lord Yama and Yamatoots, complete with talking dead roosters accusing them, and being sentenced for butchering and eating chickens. Does that mean westerners also will be going to Buddhist hell for eating chicken? And what fuel do those spiritual cars run on? Wouldn’t the hereafter then require waste disposal and a sewage system as well? The problems are myriad.
Even in her rather homogenous western European clientele, Kübler-Ross could see the effects of early enculturation: “I never encountered a Protestant child who saw the Virgin Mary in his last minutes, yet she was perceived by many Catholic children.”
But there also are some hard-to-explain differences, Melvin Morse says. Whereas American near-death survivors are typically sent back by God because “it’s not your time yet,” INDIA’S AFTERLIFE VISITORS ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE TOLD THERE WAS A “CLERICAL ERROR.”
Even more curious: SOMETIMES THE BEING OF LIGHT IS ELVIS PRESLEY. Moody has chronicled at least two such sightings.
Yet the evidence for near-death paranormal powers remains shaky at best. TWO STUDIES HAVE FOUND THAT PATIENTS’ “OUT OF BODY” ACCOUNTS OF WHAT HAPPENED IN THE OPERATING ROOM WERE WRONG. So were the 1988 Armageddon forecasts hyped by Ring and others.
But what about veridical NDEs – near-death experiences in which the person supposedly sees something they couldn’t otherwise have known while ‘flat-lining’ and others are able to verify that what they saw is indeed correct. The most notorious example of this is Maria’s shoe. A lady named Maria reportedly left her body, floated around and saw a shoe on a ledge outside her hospital window, that she ‘couldn’t have possibly seen.’ Her critical care provider, Kimberly Clark, looked outside and saw the shoe, just as described. BUT WHEN RESEARCHERS TRIED TO TRACK DOWN MARIA TO CONFIRM CLARK’S STORY, THEY WEREN’T ABLE TO FIND ANY SUCH PERSON OR ANYONE ELSE TO CORROBORATE THE ACCOUNT. And when they placed a shoe on the ledge, it was clearly visible from the hospital room, PROVING CLARK HAD EXAGGERATED AT LEAST PART OF THE STORY. Here’s the topper. There is no record of Maria being in that hospital.
Michael Sabom, however, offers a compromise stance: He rejects the idea that they provide glimpses of a heaven or hell. “I’m not saying these people didn’t experience something odd. But I am saying that we should take it with a grain of salt, because IF ANECDOTES MEET YOUR STANDARD FOR WHAT QUALIFIES AS EVIDENCE, then you should probably start buying tin foil and food buckets, because THERE ARE JUST AS MANY PEOPLE WHO REPORT SEEING REPTILIANS AND WHO HAVE BEEN ABDUCTED BY ALIENS.”
Sixty years ago, Dr. Wilder Penfield, a neurosurgeon, poked around the right temporal lobe of some epileptic patients and discovered that they would hear heavenly music, relive their pasts in 3D, and have out-of-body visions. Similar experiments continue.
There’s growing evidence that the temporal lobe plays a huge role in creating NDEs. When patients had their brains scanned after an NDE, it was discovered that they had increased levels of temporal lobe activity compared with those in a control group. That could help explain why only a small percentage of people who flat line have NDEs. When Dr. Olaf Blanke implanted electrodes into the brains of patients, HE WAS ABLE TO TRIGGER SUPERNATURAL AND OUT OF BODY EXPERIENCES BY STIMULATING THE TEMPORAL PARIETAL JUNCTION.
Thank you,Rabbi!
Michael, I am not sure how you are finding the near death experience as a possibility (many explanations available) but the question is being asked by your congregation today, by living people wondering of what happens after death. So, the question is very relevant to your congregation as it is to all of us. Your congregants are asking you whether after their death they will go to to some mundane, shadowy existence (which is not like the everlasting torment but still not much fun) or to some other form of existence. Yeah, they will find out after dying but they want to know now, that is the very reason for their anguish. This anguish is far more universal. It is extremely hard (if not impossible) to convey the idea of nonexistence after death. I personally see only two analogies (I don’t think we can have some direct access to this feeling since we DO exist). One is our experience (or more accurately the lack of it) in a deep sleep or let’s say an anesthesia during a surgery. The consciousness (the very feeling of being here and now) disappears for that time. Similar analogy is being proposed by thinking of our consciousness before we were born, although – arguably – this may not be this same (more to say here). The other analogy is by trying to understand what happens to people gradually loosing their faculties, in – let’s say – dementia, Alzheimer’s disease or alike. These people seem to have their consciousness being trimmed more and more, to the point that almost nothing is left and then what remains degrades and disappears. And so, this “on or off” consciousness quality we normally experience is not so much “on or off”. It may fade away in stages to the point it disappears. Anyway, I am not sure how much understanding are you getting from your congregation and whether you want to dig deeper. I will leave it at that.
@@jaynyczak7999 why don’t you try watching some NDE interviews? Many of them are very intense and many of them defy science as we know it, because they literally should not be able to come back, let alone be healed of their ailments, and on top of that. Many of them after their NDE have strange abilities to do things that we are taught are EVIL. Is that why we are taught certain things are evil, because they actually are enlightening? POWERFUL? WITH THE ABILITY TO HELP OTHERS? We know the elite want the truth hidden and kept for themselves. They will give us a counterfeit and call it real, but it is only partially real. What you do with the TRUTH is up to you. You can use it for good. You can use it for evil, or you can use it for what you think may be good, but is actually evil. That is called deception. Whether or not those who deceive us are being deceived themselves is a question unanswered.
Carl Jung took your thought one step further. He said that rather than speculating about life after death we ought to speculate about where we were, before we were born. His reasoning is that we may have come into this life with a purpose and if so, it would be important to try and determine what that purpose is.
When I was a child indoctrinated in Catholicism, I remember being told that heaven was a place where everyone sings praise to god and worships him for all eternity. I thought my gosh that sounds terrible, church FOREVER?! But instantly I shut that down, I was AFRAID TO THINK IT, because hell was surely worse. I knew I was finally free when (less than a year ago) I was able to say out loud “this is all stupid and I was taught to be afraid to think.” Still counting the ways THAT has screwed up my life.
I found Dr. Ehrman’s lectures a few months ago and he has brought so much clarity. The religious part of my education (Catholic school through 12th grade) was never for my own good. And it certainly left a lot of Christian history out of the classroom. It’s all very fascinating and has totally accelerated the deconstruction I’ve been working on for years.
In the past year, I finally reached a point where I saw the light and took a breath, “born again” …but this time on MY terms.
Erin: Yes, always think for yourself with critical thinking skills which lead us to know the facts and truth of this world. Question everything!
I completely understand your religious trauma, having attended a Christian school from K2-12 grade, lived with a religious fundamentalist family and attended church until my late teens.
It warps the mind and critical thinking and subconsciously programs you to live in fear.
If you also had an abusive home, it makes life more difficult.
Joining Bart’s blog page (highly recommend) and getting books like Christopher Hitchens ‘God is not great’ and Richard Dawkins ‘The God delusion’ will also help.
There are also many YouTube videos on debates with Christopher Hitchens that really did it for me.
This debate was a game changer- it has Hitchens and Stephen Fry would destroyed every facet of the catholic regime. (You would appreciate the video – don’t mind the title, I think it was meant to draw people to it)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JZRcYaAYWg4&t=266s&pp=ygUjY2F0aG9saWMgY2h1cmNoIGlzIGEgZm9yY2UgZm9yIGdvb2Q%3D
All the best to you
This was always a weird theology for me, because I grew up hearing something similar. I couldn’t understand how God had made a beautiful world to travel in, good friendships and family, the ability to play sports and instruments, and to study and learn, and then one day, I’d have to just sing forever……That theology is not thought out at all!
“Eternal rest grant unto them,oh Lord and may perpetual light shine upon them.”..That sounds like a terrible way to spend eternity. You’re trying to get your rest and a perpetual light is glaring on you.
Well said
👏😐
Great episode
I really never believed that God being “good” would send any decent person to hell so I never felt hell was ever an issue in my experience.
It was learning, that there may be no afterlife that really made me sad, to not see my friends and family after passing.
But I guess you gotta accept reality for what it really is if you are a truth seeker
Are you a Muslim ?
Just now starting the video, but wanted to say thanks in advance. FYI, I *am* going to hell — my dad said so, when I was 9 years old, because I made a random thoughtless unintentional subject-reversing joke that he thought was blasphemous and truly unforgivable. Naturally, god never answered my pleas for forgiveness, so for the next 10 years of sleepless nights, I assumed my dad must have been right.
So that’s how my formative years went. See if you can imagine all the cumulative effects that would have on a person.
You’re not going to hell.
I had similar experiences multiple times growing up and it followed into adulthood until I stayed away from toxic religious people and released the belief and fear.
Sounds like your dad was an idiot and an incompetent parent. There’s a lot of them out there. You’re not going to Hell because an idiot claimed you were.
I’m Jewish and I was never threatened with going to Hell. When a born again Christian asked me if I knew if I was going to Heaven or Hell, I didn’t know if Jews believed in Hell because no one had ever mentioned Hell ever.
I asked a Black Baptist minister if a Jew who was murdered in Auschwitz was now in Heaven or Hell. He didn’t want to answer me and he tried to weasel his way out of it, but he eventually admitted the answer was they were in Hell.
I would like to apologize for my mentally insane Christian brethren. They don’t know what they are doing. 😉
“Religion began when the first scoundrel met the first fool.” — Voltaire
change that to scoundrel evangelist minister and you will have it right. Voltair never imagined how much reach television would give
Voltaire nailed it. I don’t understand how people can be so delusional. And what’s up with this chicks blue hair? Nice look.
So, are we not saved by grace thru faith in Christ? I think this is the Crux of the Gospel. Our belief saves us, not our good works. Have you read the Pauline Epistles?
My mental health is so much better since I stopped believing in Hell. 😊
You mean its much better after getting out of Hell, Hell is just a present reality. And the reality is religion puts you in a state of bondage, that’s Hell. What a pity the authors or tellers of the OT have been misrepresented for all these years and people have turned something quite useful(hebrew wisdom) into a sword to enslave people or cut them down.
The great thing about this podcast is that it’s timeless. As someone who recently found Bart, I now have plenty of hours or relevant pods to listen too. Quite a treat.